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	<title>Comments on: Why We&#8217;re All So Messed Up</title>
	<atom:link href="http://ashesblog.com/2009/06/06/why-were-all-so-messed-up/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://ashesblog.com/2009/06/06/why-were-all-so-messed-up/</link>
	<description>Celebrating Western Civilization</description>
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		<title>By: Lone Primate</title>
		<link>http://ashesblog.com/2009/06/06/why-were-all-so-messed-up/#comment-152</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lone Primate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ashesblog.com/?p=1272#comment-152</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reuven makes a point I wouldn&#039;t have gotten at one time. Given a set a data, the &quot;right&quot; answer really comes down to what question it is you&#039;re asking about it -- and that includes all the implied ones that the questioner himself may not even be aware of. I think that&#039;s one of the reasons why people in different civilizations are so prone to qualifying one another as &quot;evil&quot;. It&#039;s easy to assume one&#039;s own standards and presumptions are universal, and so anyone straying from them must be doing so willfully and contrarily. Sadly, in our species, that seems to make it so much easier to walk into a crowd of them wearing a bomb, or guide missiles into their homes from hardened bunkers on the other side of the planet.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reuven makes a point I wouldn&#8217;t have gotten at one time. Given a set a data, the &#8220;right&#8221; answer really comes down to what question it is you&#8217;re asking about it &#8212; and that includes all the implied ones that the questioner himself may not even be aware of. I think that&#8217;s one of the reasons why people in different civilizations are so prone to qualifying one another as &#8220;evil&#8221;. It&#8217;s easy to assume one&#8217;s own standards and presumptions are universal, and so anyone straying from them must be doing so willfully and contrarily. Sadly, in our species, that seems to make it so much easier to walk into a crowd of them wearing a bomb, or guide missiles into their homes from hardened bunkers on the other side of the planet.</p>
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		<title>By: Lone Primate</title>
		<link>http://ashesblog.com/2009/06/06/why-were-all-so-messed-up/#comment-151</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lone Primate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 11:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ashesblog.com/?p=1272#comment-151</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I had to look it up... it&#039;s Never Seek to Tell Thy Love, by William Blake: http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poem/190.html.  It was an interesting course; one of only a handful of courses I took in university that really made an impression on me.  The professor was great.  He had an Oxford accent and it was clear he had a ball teaching and unwrapping big ideas for us.  The last I heard he was teaching somewhere in Continental Europe.  It was a privilege to be in his orbit for a year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had to look it up&#8230; it&#8217;s Never Seek to Tell Thy Love, by William Blake: <a href="http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poem/190.html" rel="nofollow">http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poem/190.html</a>.  It was an interesting course; one of only a handful of courses I took in university that really made an impression on me.  The professor was great.  He had an Oxford accent and it was clear he had a ball teaching and unwrapping big ideas for us.  The last I heard he was teaching somewhere in Continental Europe.  It was a privilege to be in his orbit for a year.</p>
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		<title>By: Reuven</title>
		<link>http://ashesblog.com/2009/06/06/why-were-all-so-messed-up/#comment-149</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reuven]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ashesblog.com/?p=1272#comment-149</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I fiond it interesting that you steer towards the &#039;wrong&#039; in inconsistent.  I guess more to the point of what I was trying to make, using your eaxmples is that Barney and Stalin are both right answers, therefore there is oftentimes more than one &#039;right&#039; answer. 
(In your puzzles above, so long as a valid logical explanation can be made -- so Hussein doesn&#039;t belong because he&#039;s the only one with a crowd or distinct bacground; Barney doesn&#039;t belong because he&#039;s the only one that&#039;s more than a bust portrait; Barney doesn&#039;t belong because he&#039;s the only one without a mustache; Barney&#039;s the only one that&#039;s naked (for a dinosaur);  Barney&#039;s the only one with contemporary relevancy; Stalin&#039;s the only one without hands; Stalin&#039;s the only one I&#039;ve never actually heard a recording of his voice; Barney is the only one distinctly lit from the left; Hitler is the only one with a microphone)

So if you said Barney, and your brother said Stalin, both of you are right even though your answers do not match. Neither of you are wrong. You know with your awareness of being sure that you are right... and so is he.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fiond it interesting that you steer towards the &#8216;wrong&#8217; in inconsistent.  I guess more to the point of what I was trying to make, using your eaxmples is that Barney and Stalin are both right answers, therefore there is oftentimes more than one &#8216;right&#8217; answer.<br />
(In your puzzles above, so long as a valid logical explanation can be made &#8212; so Hussein doesn&#8217;t belong because he&#8217;s the only one with a crowd or distinct bacground; Barney doesn&#8217;t belong because he&#8217;s the only one that&#8217;s more than a bust portrait; Barney doesn&#8217;t belong because he&#8217;s the only one without a mustache; Barney&#8217;s the only one that&#8217;s naked (for a dinosaur);  Barney&#8217;s the only one with contemporary relevancy; Stalin&#8217;s the only one without hands; Stalin&#8217;s the only one I&#8217;ve never actually heard a recording of his voice; Barney is the only one distinctly lit from the left; Hitler is the only one with a microphone)</p>
<p>So if you said Barney, and your brother said Stalin, both of you are right even though your answers do not match. Neither of you are wrong. You know with your awareness of being sure that you are right&#8230; and so is he.</p>
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		<title>By: Reuven</title>
		<link>http://ashesblog.com/2009/06/06/why-were-all-so-messed-up/#comment-148</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reuven]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:26:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ashesblog.com/?p=1272#comment-148</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It also depends on what your definition of elephant is. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It also depends on what your definition of elephant is. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: N.S. Palmer</title>
		<link>http://ashesblog.com/2009/06/06/why-were-all-so-messed-up/#comment-147</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[N.S. Palmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:13:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ashesblog.com/?p=1272#comment-147</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks so much for your kind words!

However, knowing you even as casually as I do, I think that you&#039;re being far too modest about your own ability. You could easily have solved Tierney&#039;s puzzle, though maybe without the detour into ancient number systems. That was fun even though it didn&#039;t lead to a solution.

That sounds like an interesting lit course you took. Do you happen to remember what poem your quote came from? I don&#039;t know that one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks so much for your kind words!</p>
<p>However, knowing you even as casually as I do, I think that you&#8217;re being far too modest about your own ability. You could easily have solved Tierney&#8217;s puzzle, though maybe without the detour into ancient number systems. That was fun even though it didn&#8217;t lead to a solution.</p>
<p>That sounds like an interesting lit course you took. Do you happen to remember what poem your quote came from? I don&#8217;t know that one.</p>
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		<title>By: N.S. Palmer</title>
		<link>http://ashesblog.com/2009/06/06/why-were-all-so-messed-up/#comment-146</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[N.S. Palmer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 17:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ashesblog.com/?p=1272#comment-146</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Right you are, though it&#039;d be a rare hardware store that stocked enough barometers to measure a building by your second method. :-)

Your final point is both perceptive and important. Statements can be inconsistent without being contradictory. If I say that X is black and you say that it&#039;s blue, we can both be wrong: it might be pink. But if I say that X is black and you say that &quot;it&#039;s not true that X is black,&quot; then one of us must be right even if X doesn&#039;t exist. We often make the mistake of assuming that if one explanation is wrong, then the next one we find must be right. It&#039;s a psychological quirk of how our minds work.

Something similar often happens to novice chessplayers. They think for a minute or two about their next move, ruling out various possibilities until they realize that they&#039;re running short of time. Then, they make the next move that occurs to them, on the assumption that if it&#039;s not one of the &quot;wrong&quot; moves they&#039;ve just been contemplating, it must be a &quot;right&quot; move.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right you are, though it&#8217;d be a rare hardware store that stocked enough barometers to measure a building by your second method. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Your final point is both perceptive and important. Statements can be inconsistent without being contradictory. If I say that X is black and you say that it&#8217;s blue, we can both be wrong: it might be pink. But if I say that X is black and you say that &#8220;it&#8217;s not true that X is black,&#8221; then one of us must be right even if X doesn&#8217;t exist. We often make the mistake of assuming that if one explanation is wrong, then the next one we find must be right. It&#8217;s a psychological quirk of how our minds work.</p>
<p>Something similar often happens to novice chessplayers. They think for a minute or two about their next move, ruling out various possibilities until they realize that they&#8217;re running short of time. Then, they make the next move that occurs to them, on the assumption that if it&#8217;s not one of the &#8220;wrong&#8221; moves they&#8217;ve just been contemplating, it must be a &#8220;right&#8221; move.</p>
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		<title>By: Lone Primate</title>
		<link>http://ashesblog.com/2009/06/06/why-were-all-so-messed-up/#comment-145</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Lone Primate]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 12:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ashesblog.com/?p=1272#comment-145</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I knew if I waited a while you&#039;d produce something fascinating again. :)  The work you did trying to figure our Tierney&#039;s puzzle was wonderful to read. I felt such envy as I read how you tracked down the right answer, something I could only have dreamed of. And then, to turn around and show us it could be something else... what a revelation.

Something like that happened to me in a university literature course. There was a line of poetry that went, &quot;I told my love/I told my love&quot;... the professor explained that &quot;to tell&quot; could also mean to quantify something. So was the poet telling his lover of his love per se, or that he had measured its relative value? And suddenly it came to me, and I asked, &quot;Couldn&#039;t it be both?&quot; And I realized that&#039;s where he was steering us. That&#039;s when I first became aware of the real subjectivity of &quot;meaning&quot;.

It&#039;s really something to see it so visually demonstrated here. It took me a while but I got where you were going by the time Stalin was sitting on his hands. But then, it took me to my third essay to stop arguing against Deconstructionism in that lit course. :)

Thanks for this. :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I knew if I waited a while you&#8217;d produce something fascinating again. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   The work you did trying to figure our Tierney&#8217;s puzzle was wonderful to read. I felt such envy as I read how you tracked down the right answer, something I could only have dreamed of. And then, to turn around and show us it could be something else&#8230; what a revelation.</p>
<p>Something like that happened to me in a university literature course. There was a line of poetry that went, &#8220;I told my love/I told my love&#8221;&#8230; the professor explained that &#8220;to tell&#8221; could also mean to quantify something. So was the poet telling his lover of his love per se, or that he had measured its relative value? And suddenly it came to me, and I asked, &#8220;Couldn&#8217;t it be both?&#8221; And I realized that&#8217;s where he was steering us. That&#8217;s when I first became aware of the real subjectivity of &#8220;meaning&#8221;.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s really something to see it so visually demonstrated here. It took me a while but I got where you were going by the time Stalin was sitting on his hands. But then, it took me to my third essay to stop arguing against Deconstructionism in that lit course. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Thanks for this. <img src='http://s0.wp.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Reuven</title>
		<link>http://ashesblog.com/2009/06/06/why-were-all-so-messed-up/#comment-144</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Reuven]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 04:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ashesblog.com/?p=1272#comment-144</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One can also triangulate with the barometer using shadow length and ratios.  
One can also use the barometer as the measuring device (a known) and count in increments up the side of the building (unknown). Thus, for example, the building could be 17,156 barometers tall.

And I&#039;d like to point out an alternate to your conclusion. You state &quot;The awareness that however sure we are that we’re right, we still might be wrong.&quot; 
The awaremess that however sure we are that we&#039;re right, does not mean that others are not also right.
(Not so much that we&#039;re wrong, but that, like in your tests, more than one answer is possible, thus making each answer right, even if the answer does not match ours or equate to the same result.)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One can also triangulate with the barometer using shadow length and ratios.<br />
One can also use the barometer as the measuring device (a known) and count in increments up the side of the building (unknown). Thus, for example, the building could be 17,156 barometers tall.</p>
<p>And I&#8217;d like to point out an alternate to your conclusion. You state &#8220;The awareness that however sure we are that we’re right, we still might be wrong.&#8221;<br />
The awaremess that however sure we are that we&#8217;re right, does not mean that others are not also right.<br />
(Not so much that we&#8217;re wrong, but that, like in your tests, more than one answer is possible, thus making each answer right, even if the answer does not match ours or equate to the same result.)</p>
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